Why Postmodern Barney hates comic books

[rivkat]

Bookslut blog had this link and I --

Well. Apparently all comic book fans think alike (also, I appear to have misplaced my penis, which PMB assumes is a necessary attribute of comic fannishness), and that makes them racist, homophobic, and intolerant of change. But it's really not our fault, because we probably have Asperger's or some mild-spectrum autistic attributes. Which is "not to say I’m trying to pathologize super-hero fans and their behavior." Really, PMB? Because I'm sort of interested in what trying on your part would look like.

Comments

[bexless.livejournal.com]

*IRE*

[thornsilver]

He is so fucking... *full* of himself, isn't he? Talk about not seing other opinions as valid...

[popfantastic.livejournal.com]

*boggle*

So much wrong, I don't even know where to start.

I mean, even if I were to accept that stereotypical heterosexual white male as Default Comicfan, in my experience, he is about ten times as likely to be the opposite of what PMB sketches out -- fully aware that reading comics does not exactly impart one with an aura of cool and therefore often attentive to a fault to not insulting women and minorities (although not necessarily welcoming outsiders of any stripe into the comics community, but I consider that a separate issue).

Seriously, no one reading The Authority complained that it would be good save for "the fags." He's just making that up.

[danielleleigh.livejournal.com]

For the record, I read this guy on a regular basis, and I don't think he's making it up (He works in a comic book store and if he makes this shit up? He's got other people who work with him who also have blogs and could call him on this shit if they wanted to).

I've SEEN comic book fans say shit like this on-line - I've seen the racism ("Jessica Alba looks like a whore in that blond wig! Actually, all hispanic/latina women with dyed blonde hair look slutty! How can she be Sue Storm!" etc), I've seen the sexism, I've seen the homophobia (seriously, people have spent a great deal of time and energy trying to convince others that Batman is NOT GAY and to read him as such is somehow a crime against the intent of the industry or something.).

I'm not defending this argument (because I think it is a ridiculous one) but on-line I've seen more of the type of fan he is talking about than the one you are (although I agree that fan exists).

[popfantastic.livejournal.com]

I've SEEN comic book fans say shit like this on-line

Once again, I'm glad not to be so much involved the online comic fandom.

I have seen *plenty* of bad behavior from comic fans IRL, as we have discussed in the past, but it tends to be directed against mundanity (in the sense of not being in the fandom...and, okay, in the usual sense too) rather than at specific gender, ethnic, etc. groups. I in no way doubt its existence, but it seems to me that the good behavior at least in terms of outright homophobia, sexism, racism have vastly outweighed the bad, and I'm offended on behalf of my experience of Average Comic Guy.

Of course, I am lucky in that one of my local comic book stores is beside a college campus and staffed by folks I've come to know who would pretty much kick out anyone at the first use of the word fag. But we're not particularly urban or enlightened, so I don't know that this is so far from the norm.

[danielleleigh.livejournal.com]

I think they would turn out folks like that at my comic book store as well...somehow on-line has turned into a "safe" place to vent one's disgusting attitudes.

[popfantastic.livejournal.com]

He works in a comic book store and if he makes this shit up? He's got other people who work with him who also have blogs and could call him on this shit if they wanted to

(Was joking about The Authority, by the way. I should have said "who is reading" -- as in, the decline of the title has to do with many things beyond Apollo and Midnighter. Me no type more with bad headache.)

[danielleleigh.livejournal.com]

oh man! jeez...totally misread the sarcasm/humor in that...(obviously, I don't read that title or I (hope) I would have gotten that...

[harriet-spy.livejournal.com]

I've SEEN comic book fans say shit like this on-line - I've seen the racism ("Jessica Alba looks like a whore in that blond wig! Actually, all hispanic/latina women with dyed blonde hair look slutty! How can she be Sue Storm!"

That wasn't a fan. That was GODDAMNED MOTHERFUCKING JOHN BYRNE.

[harriet-spy.livejournal.com]

If you read his blog as a whole, you'll see that he also includes articles on Why I Hate Indie Comics and Why I Hate Manga. They're deliberately exaggerated for comic effect.

Honestly, as he's a store owner, I can believe he's seen the worst behavior out of every type of comics-buyer. (It's pretty clear from the rest of his blog that he knows perfectly well that women as well as men buy comics, too, and the proportion is changing, and his store caters to that.)

[rivkat.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I went and read a bunch of the columns, and I now see this post in context as standard expression of the truism that all people hate their customers -- I truly believe that there is no hatred so pure, so righteous, as that of the person who is (or hopes to be) paid for the people who (may) pay him. I believe that he's seen all this stuff, including people who dislike the Authority because of the gay characters. Nonetheless, I still object to the overgeneralization -- when he talks about annoying parents, for example, he at least classifies and singles out certain types -- and to the Asperger's stuff.

What was weird to me about his discussion of women was that the ones who buy superhero stuff seem to be invisible -- he'll talk about women and manga, and women and indies, and then occasionally there are some women who buy X-titles. Because ... ? Well, he seems to think it has something to do with bondage and rape fantasies. I'm not quite sure what makes X-titles uniquely suited to those kinks, as I've only read Whedon's and Morrison's runs and didn't think too much of either.

[harriet-spy.livejournal.com]

What was weird to me about his discussion of women was that the ones who buy superhero stuff seem to be invisible

I wouldn't find it all that very shocking if they were invisible because they don't exist, at least not in the numbers that would be noticeable in a crowd. God knows there are never many women in Midtown Comics when I go in, and if they do disproportionately favor manga or indies, then it wouldn't surprise me if me clutching my Ultimate Fantastic Four as well as my indie P.S. 238 is the only superhero comic they sell to a chick all day.

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

buh...I only bought superhero titles as a kid. Even now - as an adult - the comics that I like are still fricking superhero books. I'm trying to read "Preacher" but sometimes I just need a guy in blue spandex who is trying to do the right thing.

And also do Batman, but I did not consciously get that when I was 12.

And I am most definitely female. And I've never felt invisible in my comic book store - if anything I've spent quality time in conversation with other customers or the owners and all have been really smart, funny, charming and open-minded. But I'm going to a shop off-campus so maybe this is a locational thing? Although Lexington Ky is not known for being a bastion of liberality. Maybe everyone is just making nice for me while I am there and as soon as I leave they are pulling out the KKK gear and calling me names and plotting the downfall of Batman?

Now my happy little shop seems sordid...

[harriet-spy.livejournal.com]

Sure, and I was a little Chris Claremont fangirl during *my* formative years. But every set of statistics I've seen indicates that comics overall still have a substantial male majority customer base, and that women who buy comics buy manga especially over superhero comics. It's pure numbers. Women in fandom are a minority. Women in fandom into comics are a minority within a minority.

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

Are there specific fandom numbers that include media-based fandoms (not just Sci-Fi)? Because I am always shocked to find that women are percieved to be a small percentage of fandom, when my experiences in fandom itself have been overwhelmingly involving other women.

Of course this could be a small little corner and I do see that we are a small percentage of the comic buying public - maybe. I have to wonder though *how* small we really are and how accurate the measures - because I don't *feel* invisible. But hell - comic readership is down across the boards. They should only hope to recruit more obsessive single women with jobs to the ranks.

And I don't know that women are a minority overall in fandom so much as we are *told* we are a minority and if the people telling us that are basing it on a Gaming/SciFi/Comic model and other forms of media fandom is just not considered. Or my blood sugar could be low and it is 6pm and I am still at work and need to shut-up now. It is any woman's guess, really.

::just finished conversation with cubicle-mate - a member of the Scott Peterson Trial Fandom who just doesn't know it::

[(Anonymous)]

I know Dorian personally -- those posts aren't exagerated for comic effect. He's a hateful bastard.

[(Anonymous)]

I know Dorian personally -- those posts aren't exagerated for comic effect. He's a hateful bastard.

[derryderrydown.livejournal.com]

Now, this is possibly a failing of Americans in general, not just of comic-book fans.

All comic-book fans are American? I find it amusing that this comes just after he talks about how 'most' comic-book fans believe "they are the standard to which others should be compared".