SPN 9x02 and Gravity

[rivkat]

OK I am a horrible person but I thought that Dean’s speech to Kevin was incredibly manipulative, though not deliberately so. It’s just that Dean’s only tactic for keeping people with him is leveraging their guilt about how much he’s given for them, and he’s learned that it works. Also, what is with ‘family equals person you’d die for’? Dean Winchester began this odyssey risking his life for perfect strangers as a matter of course, which is a big part of what made him so awesome, and he and Sam kept it up this episode running straight into the trap for a hunter he knew and one he didn’t. Family has to mean more than that—person you’d live for, maybe. I wanted to think that Dean, at some level, knew that. At least that gives some good parallelism with his interaction with Sam at the end: Dean is saying what’s expedient, but not what’s true, and it’s not good for anybody.

Ok, and at the same time Dean is brimful of love and hands it out readily (see above re: what makes him so awesome) so I do think he feels deep affection for Kevin, and he would plainly risk his life for Kevin—but when you say “Dean, Sam, Cas and Kevin” you have gone beyond what I believe in the profound bond area, sorry.

Gravity: Sorry, Film Critic Hulk, but I have to agree with my husband here: the incredible visual accomplishments of the film were undermined, to the point that I found it rather silly, by the terrible soundtrack. Parts of the film knew how to use space’s silence! Why the horrible music cues telling us exactly what was going to happen at key points?

Comments

[thelostglove]

Yeah, the bad (uh, Deano, I'm not sure Kevin wants to be part of the family) and awkward (oh my god, the taking in pop culture references, make it stop) kind of undercut things I liked, like a shoutout to my personal theory that Kevin's mom's death was fishy, or how Sam will just cold never get over how awesome his brother is. I'm not a fan of this writer in general, so I read Dean's speech to Kevin as sincere on Dean's part, but...man, gentle manipulation for the common good would make so much for sense. But if Dean started pulling the "you're family and I'd die for you" card on traumatized teenagers to keep them under control, it would make it harder for me to like Dean, you know?

While we're at it, I'll admit to sort of half-watching the premiere, but am I right that Dean's entire basis for not telling Sam about Ezekiel is that he's not sure Sam would go along with it (for reasons I wasn't entirely clear on)?

[rivkat]

Oh, yes, from Kevin's POV why would he want to be part of the Winchester family of eternal suffering? And he doesn't even know where Adam is, as far as we know! But I buy Dean thinking that would be an important concession given how Dean thinks. I thought the speech was surface-sincere but even Dean must know at some level it couldn't stand up to poking. I love him, but this is not his best part, any more than the Ben/Lisa mindwipe was.

Yes, Dean doesn't want Sam to know so Sam won't fight, but I think his reasons there are crappy but perfectly sound on their own terms: Sam doesn't want to be possessed; Dean knows Sam wants to rest and if the only option to save him is possession then Dean thinks Sam would definitely choose eternal rest instead. Arguably Dean would have been able to guilt Sam into sticking around even if Sam knew possession was involved, but Dean doesn't know that for sure. Also, if I really stretch I can get to "Ezekiel said that if an aware Sam struggled he'd kill them both, and Dean's not sure Sam could stop himself from struggling given his feelings re: possession and history with scratching at his wall, even if Sam said he was willing."

[thelostglove]

Heh, I hadn't even thought of that. "Dear Mr. Tran: We are pleased to inform you that the Winchester family has a position available for: YOUNGEST BROTHER. We hope you will take advantage of this exciting opportunity..."

I had issues with Sam's head trip in the premiere, but actually, what it really raised for me again was the whole squishy issue of how angels take vessels, and how for all they talk about needing consent, most of them couldn't give two shits about, like, actual informed consent in the sense a human would understand it. Abaddon may complain that demons buy from humans what they should be taking by force, but man, on balance, that's a way straighter deal than most vessels seem to get.

(Dean, who's of course coming at it from a totally different place, starts out saying that it's totally up to Sam whether Sam is saved by Ezekiel--which is true as far as it goes, but no way were Dean's nerves up to giving that to Sam as a real choice.)

I like your "if Sam knew what was happening he wouldn't be able to help himself" logic, I think I'm going with that.

[percysowner]

Yes, Dean believes that if Sam knew the price of being alive is being possessed by an angel then Sam would rather die. So Dean simply took the decision out of Sam's hands. I do thing that Zeke is manipulating Dean every way he can, but since Dean is highly manipulative toward Kevin and others, I don't feel for Dean right now. Sam, I feel for, but I suspect that Sam will be more and more overshadowed by Zeke as time goes on.