SPN 7x03

[rivkat]

If you didn't like the episode because (1) another dead woman, (2) Dean lying to Sam, or (3) Dean boneheadedly allowing the kid to live in direct contradiction to his rationale for killing Amy, I can't disagree with any of that, but it still worked for me.  Within the narrative, I think Dean was right--the next time her kid was in trouble, of course she was going to kill more people.  Dean knows that as well as anyone could (the things I'd do for this family, they scare me--and that was S1).  And I think he infers/projects, correctly, that eating the living is yummier and thus requires resistance, so self-interest and family protection are going to be pointing in the same direction for her--yeah, chances are she'll kill again.  (Sam may have identified with Amy, but Dean just a couple of weeks before was using his torturer's skills to find Ben and Lisa, so I'm thinking that Dean was also identifying and therefore not liking what he saw.)

At the same time, we've seen Dean unable to kill kids before, and he could at least tell himself that the kid hadn't yet become a killer and that he wasn't going to execute a kid without a record.  Also, and more importantly, hello Dean's death wish!  I've missed you!  Could he really hope for anything better than being put down as a monster by the monster whose mother he killed?  So this was a well-motivated boneheaded choice that seemed very Dean to me.

The lying to Sam is sad, but until I see differently I'm going with "Dean trusts Sam about Sam, but not so much about monsters Sam identifies with and wants to think won't kill again."

Comments

[coffeeandink]

I think this is the most interesting thing SPN's done in a long time. Though I'll be surprised if we ever see that kid again.

[rivkat]

Yeah, not holding out hope. It'd be kind of cool if the kid got the opportunity to break the cycle and took it in a way Dean never quite managed, but that's what fan fiction is for.

[starrcat]

I think that Sam has given Dean plenty of reason not to trust him about anything - let's not forget that Sam ditched Dean while suffering from hallucinations, refused to answer Dean's calls and left Dean vulnerable with no help. What if Dean had been calling because Dean was in trouble? Sam couldn't know - this is not the basis for trust.

I love most of the points you make about Dean, except that he was bonehead about allowing the child to live. I think that fight his character perfectly and as you point out, played into his death wish. A win-win situation!

And the more I think about it, the more I think that Dean's death wish arises from his own feelings of being a freak. Sam has never seen this but that isn't surprising to me as Sam rarely sees what is going on with others.

[rivkat]

Right, they're both regressing, though neither of them would call it that and though if anyone ever had a reason it would be Sam. I think they can get back to choosing to rely on and be reliable for each other, but they've got a way to go.

I don't think we disagree about letting the kid live: it was boneheaded (for anyone who wants to live a long and healthy life) and there was no way Dean would kill him. Dean can't kill kids and this way he gets a chance to be justly slaughtered--how could he resist a twofold reaffirmation of who he is?

I think Sam relates very easily to many people and can be very perceptive, including being perceptive about the fact of Dean's death wish, but he and Dean have collaborated on a family structure in which Sam doesn't always get why Dean is acting the way he is. Also, I am giving Sam a big Hell pass on noticing how far Dean's falling; he did slightly better when he just had psychic powers and the demon that killed his mom and Jessica was after him, but, in retrospect, he had it pretty easy then.

[starrcat]

My problem is that Sam gets a pass on everything - if it is Friday, something is wrong with Sam that gives him a pass on something. Dean certainly didn't get a pass on Hell - he got laughed at (Yellow Fever) or put down.

I want there to be a better relationship between the brothers where they can rely on one and other, but as long as Sam gets a pass on everything and Dean gets blamed for everything, that won't happen.

[rivkat]

Quite obviously, Dean is my favorite, but I think they're both pretty rough on each other. S4 Sam made terrible choices, primarily in disregarding Dean's quite rational opinion on the whole demon blood thing, but Dean's penchant for ordering instead of explaining didn't work any better on Castiel than on Sam, and for similar reasons.

To me, the narrative has given Dean a pass on being a torturer, something Sam only seems concerned about insofar as it reflects on Dean's mental health. But as between Dean and Sam, I think they'll only be able to survive through forgiveness and reaching out towards one another.

[starrcat]

I agree that they are rough on each other. As for Dean being a torturer, I don't think he got a pass on it so much as it got ignored which really annoyed me. I thought Yellow Fever could have been a great episode exploring just that and other things but they went for comedy instead.

As for Dean ordering, he does it because people look to him to do it. He follows if someone comes up with a plan (even if it is as stupid a plan as the whole Sam taking control of Lucifer thing) but Sam and Castiel look to Dean to lead and so he does. I don't think he makes the best decisions but he at least decides. What Sam needs to do is acknowledge that Dean WILL follow him when Sam starts acting like an adult.

One of the worst things for me is knowing Dean's abandonment issues and his vulnerability because of his broken leg, Sam still deserted Dean and refused to take Dean's calls. That is the action of an immature child, not a responsible adult, particularly one suffering from hallucinations.

The writing was set up to make Sam look good and Dean look bad, but I don't accept that it did that.

[tehomet]

Reasons one and three were the reasons this episode annoyed me. Especially three. It would be logical to either kill both Amy and her son or neither. Neither would be better, considering that Amy's choice of victim was the human version of what Dean routinely kills - rapey!drug-dealers and demons: same sh*t, different day.

But if Dean's playing the suicide long game... okay, that makes sense. Depressing sense.

[rivkat]

I can't argue on one and will not try. But Dean started out distinguishing between humans and monsters, and I think there's still some narrative reason to do that--human justice will never catch monsters, so hunters have to do it. Dean knows very well they can't turn her over to the cops, so if she's going to be stopped (forget about punishment for past crimes) it's got to be by him. In some ways he's living in a pre-police force world.

But also he hates himself.