TV!

[rivkat]

V: Faux Ham Tyler, why are you not played by Brian Austin Green? Wouldn’t that be perfect?

Fringe: Walternate, hah! Walter, wow, you are a monster. Good explanation for why Peter wouldn’t notice the big differences between worlds, very elegantly done: his isolation would make him uncertain about what was real outside his home and what wasn’t, so childhood zeppelins could easily be written off as imagination. But I am deeply annoyed that suddenly it’s Elizabeth Bishop who’s “responsible” for Peter staying. Nonetheless, Walter is still a monster!

Supernatural: Um, I think this might be my perfect episode. If it weren’t for my TV cutting off the edges of people’s (Dean’s) faces, anyway. Daddy issues! Mommy issues! Sam’s best memories being spat into Dean’s face! Also, apparently, Heaven acknowledges that Sam and Dean are soulmates. I just ... no, like I said, this was my perfect episode. Cas on TV like Max Headroom! Pamela! The Roadhouse! “When I come back I’m gonna be pissed”! (I kind of want Dean to call first. Just to let them know he’s coming. Fandom, do my bidding and write that story. Also, please make revenge Dean’s way of saying that he does still care about Sam, despite his best efforts.) Theological debate over the value of a static Heaven!  ETA: See also minim_calibre's point about Sam denying Dean three times!

Further heartbreaking character work busting out all over the place, including some suggestion that the cupid’s work on John and Mary wasn’t sufficient to keep them happy, tying into the “angels are dicks”/“free will is a horrific experience, if it even exists” stuff they’ve got going on.

Sam, you better have fucking picked that amulet out of the trash, because you’re going to need to give that back to Dean to plight your troth reconsecrate it when you convince him that you’re in this with him to the end. Dean isn’t just throwing God away; he isn’t even mostly throwing God away, because the amulet never really meant that to him. He tried to be a grownup; he tried to give Sam over to someone else (Sam himself); and it was all for nothing, and Sam had already given him away anyhow.

Here’s how much I love this episode: I’m not even going to complain about “I wuv hugs” probably being anachronistic. Especially when the outfit involved exposed forearms.

Comments

[sorrel]

I share all your views on the SPN episode (especially the desire to write about what happens to Roy and Walt after they come back), but I will say that for Fringe, I don't think they were really putting the blame onto Elizabeth instead of Walter. She gave him a devastated look, but you never actually see her say "No, you can't take him!" Instead, it's still Walter who made that decision. And I think it says a lot about his character that I was so surprised that he actually went over there with good intentions, and only got derailed into, you know, stealing his son when things went wrong. Complex characters, doing it right.

(Also "Walternate" made me just about burst something, I laughed so hard. Oh, Walter.)

I also liked all the hints about William Bell in this episode: for an episode with him not even being in it, it sure revealed a lot more about his character than we've learned so far. The fact that he couldn't even bother to come home for the funeral of his partner's son does a lot to discredit the "kindly uncle" thing that Bell was trying to sell to Olivia. (Not that that was particularly believable, even on Spock's face, but still.) And it made for an interesting contrast between him and Walter: they are both monsters, but at least Walter was a monster with good intentions. I don't think that can be said for William Bell.

And this episode made me really need to rewatch some episodes to get the timeline straight- at what point in Peter's life did Walter go into the asylum? Are all of Peter's memories of his absent father ones from the other universe? Because it's hard to believe that this Walter could be even a little bit of an absent father after all that. A man who could do something that terrible out of such desperate love is not a man who just goes back to office when it's over. Hmm.

[rivkat]

It's a good point: I too was surprised that he went with incredibly selfish, but not monstrous, intentions. And yet: he could have written out an explanation of how to do the cure right, which he'd know how to do convincingly given that he thinks like Walternate. So grabbing Peter when things went bad created the opportunity for his monstrous decision, and it's hard for me to think that he didn't know that. And yeah, I continue to blame him--I just feel like the show wants me to think he would've returned Peter were it not for Elizabeth. But maybe, like me, the show is more suspicious!

Double yes to everything about Bell.

My theory: I think Walter, because he's just human enough to recognize that he's a monster, was pretty devastated by what he'd done. I also suspect that some differences between himself and Walternate alienated Peter early on: notice that Peter was immediately suspicious. If Walter's guilt ate at him, I can see him staying away from Peter despite his love. Especially if there are some episodes of yelling where Walter with increasing agitation asserts that he is Peter's father and Peter begs to differ.

[sorrel]

Walter always knew that he was going to keep Peter, I think, if even the tiniest excuse came up that he could get away with it. He was just telling himself otherwise. At least, that was my read on the episode. And as for show-blaming-Elizabeth, well, Walter pretty much told Olivia that it was Elizabeth who made him realize that he wasn't taking Peter back, which meant that he'd already made that decision and was just pretending he hadn't. (At least I think so, anyway. I'd have to rewatch the conversation to be sure.) And if you're right about Walter distancing himself after this but before the asylum, then the whole thing about Elizabeth taking Peter and moving out and telling him that they could only depend on each other would have happened in this universe, which tells me that no matter how grateful she is to have Peter, she probably sees how monstrous that decision was, too. But I suspect she just dealt with it in a much more practical way, because that's what she did while Walter was off being Mad Scientist.

On the other hand, the fact that it was Elizabeth instead of Walternate with Peter in that scene about the coin could indicate that she'd already left Walternate in that universe, which could be one reason why Walter was distant, because he couldn't risk Peter figuring things out. Seriously, I really need to do some rewatching to figure out the timeline. (Oh, the hardship!)