Unpopular fannish opinion

[rivkat]

Really. No, really. It's about Studio 60, and it's not favorable.

Aaron Sorkin loves not us. Gertrude in her ratty bathrobe? Fat, unpopular, jealous Gertrude who can't spell? That's you and me, babe. That's who he's writing for, because TPTB are gods and we are Gertrude.

Sorkin is a genius with dialogue, and when the plots involved serious world issues I cut him an awful lot of slack because I was so happy to see characters who cared about broader issues on a non-genre show, but tonight I actually told my TV, "I don't need your disrespect" and turned it off.

The thing is, Aaron -- and does it invalidate the sentiment that I learned it from Farscape? -- you can be more. But until you respect the audience the way you want them to respect the storyteller, you and I are done.

Comments

[spike21.livejournal.com]

this is actually what I've been afraid of feeling and why I have sort of not entirely by accident missed the pilot and the second ep, even tho I really like Matthew Perry. Also, and I may be alone here, I loathe Bradley Whitford. So again with the avoidance for fear of feeling the non-love.

[ahab99.livejournal.com]

I'm actually continually amused by his schizophrenia on this subject: I mean, he has Jordan say that tv viewers aren't dumber than tv creators, but then has Tom/Simon call us all lonely fatties. What exactly is he talking about when he says he wants to raise the level of dialogue in this country? The dialogue between him and himself?

I don't think your opinion is actually that unpopular; most fans of his will readily admit that he spares no love for us. I think we all just differ in how much of that we're willing to put up with for the other stuff of his that we like.

[rivkat.livejournal.com]

It's weird -- he only disrespects viewers who care enough to engage in dialogue about the show.

What really got me was the fact that this was ten minutes into the second episode. I'm not invested enough to watch after that.

[harriet-spy.livejournal.com]

he only disrespects viewers who care enough to engage in dialogue about the show.


When I see that elsewhere, I always wonder if there isn't an inner self-loathing at work. After all, he's basically insulting people for taking his own life's work too seriously.

[giandujakiss.livejournal.com]

It doesn't make me sad. Just presents me with a moral dilemma: Do I watch anyway, because it's good television, knowing his true feelings? Can I remain in this abusive relationship for the joys it affords me? I mean, when we met Jordan, I thought for a second there he was starting to like his female characters.

(I haven't actually seen this week's ep yet; I figure I got the gist of the problem from your post.)

[giandujakiss.livejournal.com]

Oh, I should add (having not seen the ep yet and talking out of my ass), I suspect that the Gertrude remark is only half the story.

I know people who work in the arts. And I, of course, make vids (no - there's a point). I know that when I make a new vid, my Entire Sense of Self-Worth is Completely Wedded to how well the vid is received; if it's not enjoyed, it is nothing less than a Rejection of the Inner Core of My Being. (For a few days; then sanity returns).

This experience is but a fraction of the ones actually experienced by real people who actually work in the arts, like my friends -- and, I assume, like Sorkin.

Which means that contempt he may feel, but it's a contempt that is at least part born out of deep neediness (he needs fat Gertrude to accept and love him, and not just for professional success), and insecurity (if his shows are unsuccessful, it's because fat Gertrude just isn't sophisticated enough to understand him).

My point being, the fat Gertrude image is only fraction of how he feels, and something of a defense mechanism, at that.

But either way, none of it makes me sad, because unlike people who watch vids, I really don't give a crap what Aaron Sorkin thinkgs of me :-).

[tzikeh.livejournal.com]

Re: Gertrude: did you watch West Wing, and more importantly, were you aware of the drama that went on on the Television Without Pity message boards?

[giandujakiss.livejournal.com]

Hi - I remember the message board episode of TWW; I thought it was just a general internet thing. Was it based on an actual incident at TWOP?

TWOP incident

[tzikeh.livejournal.com]

Oh, dearie dearie me. I wish there were somewhere on line that gave a play-by-play, the way fandom_wank sometimes does.

To make a VERY long story very short.

Sorkin actually JOINS the TWOP message board for West Wing. His identity is verified; it's really him. For a while, he loves talking to the fans, and the fans love talking to him. He has his own thread where people can ask him questions.

There are people on TWOP who don't fawn all over him; in other threads, they (perfectly legitimately) talk about things they didn't like on this or that episode, or how they're displeased with the general direction of the show, or the lack of internal continuity in storyline or facts, or this or that. Like any message board.

Sorkin gets into it with one fan, then the next, then the next....

The moderator points out that Sorkin, famous or not, has to follow the rules of the posting board just like everyone else.

Things deteriorate.

Things deteriorate more.

Things... you get the picture.

Someone at West Wing, or the production company, or the network, forbids Sorkin from ever posting to or reading the internet ever again. I think they even gave him a handler to make sure, but that could be rumor.

Sorkin then writes subplots into *two separate episodes* of The West Wing:

a) a fat, ugly, crazy woman who smokes packs upon packs of cigarettes all day while sitting around in her bathrobe running a message board like a Nazi (lemonlyman.com)

b) a temp at the White House who is wearing a Federation Communicator pin on her lapel, and Josh has a diatribe at her about it. (I'm not even going to go into how many ways his diatribe is ridiculous and wrong and the IRONY of it being in the same episode in which Toby and Sam argue over whether or not Sam can take a baseball team's pennant off the wall and pack it to go to California with him).

And now he's done it again, in his *second episode* of a new show. Why not just have a character look right into the camera and say "Anyone who bothers to give a damn about televisual narrative, stop watching now, because I fucking hate you."

Uh, if you want more of my opinion, you can see it here (http://tzikeh.livejournal.com/279436.html).

Re: TWOP incident

[rivkat.livejournal.com]

The only thing I have to say is that it is awesome that the lemonlyman.com address resolves to a WB page. If only it were a mock message board it would be perfect.

[meret.livejournal.com]

I loved the show, but I do mention his little hissy fit in my review. He loves it when the fans say nice things, but acts like a 2 year old when they dare criticize his shows. Plus, instead of debating their arguments, he always goes for a personal attack. He needs to grow up. If it upsets him so much then stop reading it. Same principle as he had Jordan explain about changing the channel on the TV. Unlike BSG's growing misogyny, it doesn't bother me enough to make me stop watching this show though. I can certainly understand why it would turn other people off from the show however. How did you like Heroes? If you didn't see it, they're showing it again Tuesday at 8 PM. I recommend it! :)

I still think N/T is the best show currently on TV. :)

[rivkat.livejournal.com]

I thought Heroes was interesting enough to make me watch again. (Adrian Pasdar! With the twist! Two great tastes that taste great together.) I don't know how fannish I'll end up about it, but I loved the cheerleader. Not so sure about the stripper on the run.

N/T is pretty much the most perfect instantiation of its aim on TV -- it most fully realizes its aims -- but I might have to bet on Veronica Mars for best show on TV. Fundamentally, I want a moral hero, even though I can't get enough of Christian. Also, the fact that I dislike Sean and have moderate contempt for Julia and Matt, and truly fear for little Annie's sanity, makes it harder for me to put N/T at the top of the list. For me, it's an incredibly well-executed show with one awesome character, can't-stop-watching plots, and a bunch of characters that get on my nerves. Oh, and Roma Maffia, who is also great. Whereas I'd watch the Logan Echolls show, the Eli Navarro show, the Wallace Fennell show, probably even the Kendall Casablancas show ...

[meret.livejournal.com]

the fact that I dislike Sean

Sean is the only one on the show I really detest. He's just a screwed up as the others on the show, but he pretends that he isn't and looks down on them.

truly fear for little Annie's sanity

She and Matt never had a chance. *eg*

We didn't get UPN, so I never got the chance to watch VM. I need to try and rent it.

[fajrdrako.livejournal.com]

I've never seen Studio 60 and haven't wanted to, but your comments are the first I've heard about the show that were actually interesting.

I think 'respect your audience' should be the first rule of any show.

[boji.livejournal.com]

Personally I'm interested. People are raving about the writing but I'm not interested *enough* to dl & I'm unsurprised at the self-congratulatory overtones.

[boji.livejournal.com]

Aaron Sorkin loves not us. Gertrude in her ratty bathrobe?

He did this with Lyman's lemons (in TWW) or whatever the fan-group was called as I remember it. So I'm not surprised. But yes God you need to respect your audience/reader. And I say that as someone in the UK who has yet to see a single episode.

[rivkat.livejournal.com]

Oh, I totally knew this -- there was Lemonlyman and the Star Trek fan, both of which were cruelly treated. But having him shove it in my face (a) early on, when I didn't care about the characters and (b) when I don't care about the job the characters are doing was enough to get me to give up on the show.

[tzikeh.livejournal.com]

And Lemonlyman grew out of his own experiences on the TWOP boards, which were *entirely* his own fault. If he were gay, I'd call him a bitchy queen. Hell, I'll call him that anyway.

[tzikeh.livejournal.com]

I was about to post a really really unfavorable review of the show - and it was going to include this - but now I'm so enraged again that I have to go have some nice tea before I can even compose myself enough to write *bad things*.

How enraged is that? I believe your mood says it all.

[rivkat.livejournal.com]

Heh. Sorry. As one of the comments above points out, Sorkin is deeply conflicted about this. I mean, his position on fan commentary is analogous to someone saying, "Have you ever been elected to public office? Well, then you don't have any business discussing politics." ... and yet he wrote this great show about politics.

The thing is -- his conflict manifests in ugly, demeaning ways, and I don't need to expose myself to it.

[tzikeh.livejournal.com]

Posted (http://tzikeh.livejournal.com/279436.html).

[vass]

*heavy sigh*

I haven't seen it yet (overseas viewer, computer frequently can't handle a six minute vid, let alone a full episode of something.) But yeah. Kudos to you. "Well, that's Sorkin, he's done this before" is no reason to put up with it. But it sucks. Because he's so *good*.

Written SF fandom and authors have been doing this stuff since before *television*, with more grace and good humour than he could imagine. And frequently falling flat on their faces and getting publicly mocked for it for decades to come, yes, but if they then pull their socks up, that gets noticed too. It's probably a skill more easily learned within a supportive culture (academia's another one, some places.) What's he got? Hollywood.

The West Wing was all *about* doing better, thinking deeper and broader, having honest conversations, integrity, authenticity. I'd be surprised if he *didn't* thirst for those things himself. And then, when I'm about to feel really sorry for him, I remember that he's the one with the the power, the voice, in this relationship.

[thistle90.livejournal.com]

I didn't like the show either. Can't find a single character or relationship that seems interesting. And yeah, the Gertrude comment. Geez.

You turned it off? I almost did several times and wish I had because the worst thing was the end. How many times have people done parody versions Modern Major General, now? THAT was their big comedic breakthrough show opener. Could we come up with something less original? It would have been partially redeemed it they were actually funny doing it, but they were totally flat.

Actually, I'm relieved. I have way too many shows to watch as it is.