rivkat: Martha: when you're good to mama, mama's good to you (good to mama)
([personal profile] rivkat Dec. 1st, 2004 10:34 pm)
Lex, sweetie, you were really brave and all ...

but did it occur to you that, since you apparently healed damage to your internal organs and to your fingers (Jinx and Spell) with a speed and success impossible for an ordinary human, an "antidote" that worked for you might not work for other, normal folks?

However, since your worst nightmare is that you will destroy the world, I am prepared to overlook this lapse of reason, especially as it took place in the presence of Clark, who seems to emit a logic-distortion field as part of his alien powers. Such an awesome terror, so different from the personal fears of the others! When Luthors have delusions of grandeur, they really have delusions of grandeur.

Also, the look on Lex's face when Clark offers himself up for study -- that moment of pure calculation, speculation, acquisitive desire -- was a wonderful bit of acting. Lex has learned not to leave his evidence around where any curious wife (or alien) with a key can get in, but he hasn't lost his lust to know Clark in the only way he thinks he ever can. And don't think he doesn't know where that sudden excessive heat came from. After all, Lex has got to be familiar with sudden excessive heat as the result of Clark's presence already.

Minor question: so is Lois at risk of going nuts too? (Also, I think maybe the biological basis of some mental diseases, schizophrenia say, might be a little more heritable than an imperative to conquer the world -- especially since as far as we know Jor-el didn't conquer any worlds, so he's really got aspirations for his son rather than a desire to see Clark follow in his path.)

From: [identity profile] taraljc.livejournal.com


We don't actually know through which line Chloe and Lois are related--I think we've been assuming through Chloe's mother, but it's just as likely Lois's dead mom was Gabe's sister.

I'm still miffed that Lex somehow magically knows Cassandra's vision--which canonically he didn't. But then, canonically, Chloe knew exactly where her mother was ("Lineage"), so why she had to put out feelers to find her is yet another example of the writers' ineptitude.

From: [identity profile] latxcvi.livejournal.com


I'm still miffed that Lex somehow magically knows Cassandra's vision--which canonically he didn't.

I don't think this is what Lex's nightmare is supposed to imply, though. His greatest fear *is* that he'll become someone capable of looking on that degree of destruction with a smile.

It's a fear that dovetails with Cassandra's vision of what his future is supposed to be, yes, but it's Lex's fear. That's what the nightmare represents in Scare. It just so happens that what Lex fears for himself is what we, the audience, also already *know* is his apparent destiny.

I agree with you about the continuity fuck-up with Chloe, though. That was nothing more than a lack of attention to detail.

From: [identity profile] rivkat.livejournal.com


Eh, I think maybe Chloe was lied to about her mom's location, and when she investigated found an absence. I will never, ever attempt to fanwank the wedding cake, I promise, but I'm occasionally willing to try with the other stupidities.

From: [identity profile] rivkat.livejournal.com


Oh, absolutely about Lois -- it's just a possibility.

I don't think Lex knew Cassandra's vision until just then -- indeed, the way I read the scene would mean he'd have no reason to think of Cassandra (except insofar as he knows that what she saw in his future killed her, and believes that his nightmare might become real). They shared images, but Lex doesn't know that. Lex being a meteor mutant, maybe his meteor-altered-bacteria visions were closer to the truth than others'. In SV logic, which is of course mutant logic.

Couldn't Gabe have lied to Chloe about where her mother was (producing her belief in Lineage) so that she didn't really know? Sometimes I feel like helping out continuity with speculation/spackle, and I guess this is one of those times.

From: [identity profile] serrico.livejournal.com


When Luthors have delusions of grandeur, they really have delusions of grandeur.

I'm sorry..."delusions"? *g*

Also, the look on Lex's face when Clark offers himself up for study -- that moment of pure calculation, speculation, acquisitive desire -- was a wonderful bit of acting.

*Yes.* Rosenbaum rules the *world* when it comes to suggesting fifty different emotions in three seconds of face time; he did it in 'Truth', and he did it here, and it *never* gets any less impressive. *Talented* guy.

so is Lois at risk of going nuts too?

Are the Lanes on Chloe's mom's side of the family? I assumed that Lois's mom was Gabe's sister, but I could be forgetting some past exposition from Chloe that negates this...

From: [identity profile] krisdia.livejournal.com


Also, the look on Lex's face when Clark offers himself up for study -- that moment of pure calculation, speculation, acquisitive desire -- was a wonderful bit of acting.

Dear God, yes. Rosenbaum rocks.

From: [identity profile] justabi.livejournal.com


Lex, sweetie, you were really brave and all ...

but did it occur to you that, since you apparently healed damage to your internal organs and to your fingers (Jinx and Spell) with a speed and success impossible for an ordinary human, an "antidote" that worked for you might not work for other, normal folks?


Or, you know, that you were exposed to it when your little biohazard suit tore and you didn't get the symptoms, so you weren't reaaaally a good test subject?

From: [identity profile] rivkat.livejournal.com


Well, everyone else was subject to some lag time before the infection took hold, so it was possible that he was not going to show symptoms for a while. But the bigger point -- that if he was asymptomatic, he wasn't a good subject to see if the stuff (I refuse to call it an "antidote") would work -- remains valid.

Wacky SV science! At least it worked for the character, which is often hard to get on SV.

From: [identity profile] acampbell.livejournal.com


I wondered if Lex was still needing those blood treatments, for heaven's sake!

As well as about the "heriditary" mental illness. Bertha Rochester's family was "mad" through several generations, and I guess inbreeding can factor in, but I couldn't help wondering: what sort of mental illness are we really talking about, here?

The whole ep was quite confusing from a logical standpoint, IMO.

(Could I possibly be added to your list? It would please me greatly, as you and your work are a great part of fandom for me.)

From: [identity profile] rivkat.livejournal.com


Yes, the nature of the illness would be important information if we were anywhere near reality, wouldn't it?

Welcome aboard! Glad you enjoy the stories.

From: [identity profile] latxcvi.livejournal.com


Lex, sweetie, you were really brave and all ...

but did it occur to you that, since you apparently healed damage to your internal organs and to your fingers (Jinx and Spell) with a speed and success impossible for an ordinary human, an "antidote" that worked for you might not work for other, normal folks?


See, I think it's reasonable for him to assume something that works on him will work on other people, though. After all, sedatives (Exodus, Bound), psychosis-inducing drugs (Shattered), and outright toxins (Covenant) all *work* on him; they have their largely intended effect when he ingests them (even if the poison from Covenant didn't kill him, it still made me very, very sick). He may be able to metabolize chemicals *faster* than an ordinary person, but that doesn't mean they don't still affect him in the same way. Clearly, as the examples I point to demonstrate, they do.

However, since your worst nightmare is that you will destroy the world, I am prepared to overlook this lapse of reason, especially as it took place in the presence of Clark, who seems to emit a logic-distortion field as part of his alien powers. Such an awesome terror, so different from the personal fears of the others! When Luthors have delusions of grandeur, they really have delusions of grandeur.

*snickers at Luthorian delusions of grandeur*

Seriously, though, Lex has always had visions of Greatness for himself; it's not surprising that his biggest fear for himself is that he could unleash/cause an act of *terrible* Greatness. FWIW, though, I think his actual fear is even more than that. He's not just afraid that he has the capacity to destroy the world; it's that he has the capacity to do so *and apparently enjoy it as he does so*. Not for nothing did his eyes snap open immediately after the image of his creepily beatific smile in the face of apparent global destruction. *That's* what he's really afraid of, IMO, the idea that he'll give in to his inner darkness to the degree that he'll actually enjoy deploying it. Especially since that's something that would make him *a lot* like Lionel, who does seem to derive a certain pleasure from the ways in which he fucks other people over, even if the reasons for the fuck-over are practical ones that achieve his objectives for him.

Also, the look on Lex's face when Clark offers himself up for study -- that moment of pure calculation, speculation, acquisitive desire -- was a wonderful bit of acting.

Agreed. Rosenbaum acted the hell out of that moment.

Minor question: so is Lois at risk of going nuts too?

Unless they tell me otherwise, I'm assuming that Lois' mom is Gabe's sister rather than the Chloe-Lois consanguinity is from Chloe's maternal line. I mean, there's tweaking the uber-canon and then, there's pissing off millions of comics fans who'll beat you to death with 60+ years of that uber-canon.

From: [identity profile] latxcvi.livejournal.com


(even if the poison from Covenant didn't kill him, it still made me very, very sick)

Heh.

Well, the sloppiness inherent in the dropping of the dialysis sub-plot does make me sick, but I meant to say, "(even if the poison from Covenant didn't kill him, it still made him very, very sick)..."

From: [identity profile] rivkat.livejournal.com


I think medical stuff in general on this show is my wedding cake. Except it's repeated so often that my contempt has become diffused.

And it's okay -- I overidentify with Lex all the time ;) -- though I haven't ever been afraid I'd blow up the world just to see it burn.

From: [identity profile] rivkat.livejournal.com


You're right that chemicals work on him, but he can tolerate more toxicity than ordinary people, which was my point. The first version of the "antidote" overloaded the system of the guy they tried it on. Given that we are told that the "antidote" stresses the system in the same way as the original toxin, then, the second version might be just as dangerous, but Lex could survive where a nonmutant wouldn't. It's not that the stuff clearly wouldn't work, just that testing it on Lex is kind of like testing it on rabbits -- it's evidence in favor of moving to human testing, but it's not evidence of efficacy/safety in humans.

I like your spin on Lex's fear of destroying the world in a fit of glee -- Lex is willing to destroy, he just doesn't want to get too fond of it.

From: [identity profile] latxcvi.livejournal.com


It's not that the stuff clearly wouldn't work, just that testing it on Lex is kind of like testing it on rabbits -- it's evidence in favor of moving to human testing, but it's not evidence of efficacy/safety in humans.

I guess to me it was the proverbial rock and a hard place. Lex either uses himself as the guinea pig or, alternatively, risks yet another relative innocent potentially dying just to test the antidote. Given that Lex was already operating under a significant sense of both guilt and responsibility in the whole scenario, I can understand why he'd chose to assume that risk rather than passing it off to someone else. Maybe if the first guy hadn't *died* (but also didn't get better), Lex would have felt like he could afford to select someone else to test the next batch. At that point, though, that wasn't a trade-off he was willing to make. I get what you're saying, but I don't necessarily think Lex was being stupid there. Yes, he can tolerate a higher level of toxicity, but by the same token, chemicals also have the effect on him that they generally have on others, too.

From: [identity profile] rivkat.livejournal.com


No, you're right -- it was brave, and it was a reasonably good idea, under the circumstances and according to SV logic. And compared to things I've happily wanked away, Lex's science was as good as a double-blinded controlled study. It's just that I wish they'd take a bit of time to try to synthesize some of the wackiness, even let Lex explain afterwards -- I hear the episode ran short.
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