SPN

[rivkat]

Warning: not squee.

Dean's misogyny: not cute. Dean's misogyny mirrored in 8-year-old: even less cute. And how fucking depressing is it that a kid being raised by his single mother has somehow managed to pick up the idea that inferiority = "bitches"? No matter how cute the rest of the saga of mini-Dean was, I feel sick to my stomach.

And it's really too bad that the show's/Dean's insecurities about masculinity had to kick me in the face, because the whole Sam/demon storyline is looking good.

On a separate note, the broad characterization that Dean does very little thinking was reinforced tonight. Your ex did a blood test ... on a guy with no forwarding address? What did she test, his beer napkin? But if Dean's just going to reinforce the terrible lessons Ben has already learned about how to treat half the human race, better to lie to him, so I guess I don't object except insofar as Dean's failing to comprehend this lie makes him stupid.

Comments

[notreallyjordan.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I felt a kick in the belly when that happened, too. And right after that I saw Dexter, having missed it Sunday, where Dexter's sister, a cop, is trying to talk to people in the neighborhood. A kid of maybe eleven on a bike looks at her and says, "that's what she means, bitch," or something to that effect. Later the kid is spray painting her patrol car and she runs him down and holds a gun to his head until he wets his pants. How evil am I that I cheered?

Why is it little boys are taught to despise women at such a young age, especially when raised by a single mom? Who thinks it's cute when they start dominating women with words before their pubic hair even comes in?

[chasethecat.livejournal.com]

Re: the blood test: I assumed that she meant she'd done a blood test on the actual father.

[cryptoxin.livejournal.com]

So not cute -- after that, I could care less about the whole paternity drama. Part of me is especially irked that this episode was written by a woman, but plenty of males involved with the show also must have reviewed the script and apparently didn't have a problem with the dialogue either.

And out of the half dozen write-ups I've seen tonight, yours is the only one that even mentions this....

And I am really sick of the cliche that boys raised by single mothers need a man to teach them manly stuff like fighting bullies -- which I'd just seen a few months ago in Friday Night Lights.

[giandujakiss.livejournal.com]

Well, you saw my post on this - and I'm so glad you and your commenters agree. Because other than you, all I've seen is squee and I'm just finding it incredible. I had a bad taste in my moth from when the kid was first introduced, but the bitches line just shocked me.

[cathexys.livejournal.com]

I'm ashamed to admit that it didn't even bother me, and now that you point it out I can't get over it...and I wonder whether it's a fannish collective blindness toward DEAN's faults, b/c frankly, I was little interested in the kid except in what he was doing for Dean...and sadly he did mirror Dean's attitude towards women didn't he?

As for the blood test. I'm not sure it's the fangirl in me, but I felt like they both knew he was his and were just going through the motions of not actually acknowledging it. B/c yes, the blood test on the unknown one night stand biker bar hookup? Eh, yes.

[rivkat.livejournal.com]

But how could she if he was another one-night stand? I suppose maybe he stuck around long enough to get tested, but that's not the sense I got. But I'll live with it.

[rivkat.livejournal.com]

Not particularly evil; I wish I knew; and, apparently, a number of SPN fans.

[rivkat.livejournal.com]

God knows I adore Dean, but the show's Issues with masculinity would be a lot easier to deal with if its answer to "what does it mean to be a man?" didn't include "looking down on women and womanish things."

I want them -- particularly Dean -- to have some uncertainty, because if Dean really thinks he's leaving his kid behind, no matter how good the home is, I want more acknowledgement that this is not a good thing, even if it's the best alternative. I can see not wanting his kid dragged into his life -- but, especially with all the demon stuff, there's some chance the kid won't have a choice.

[rivkat.livejournal.com]

The script credit is a pretty flexible thing, so it's hard to blame one person -- but the team, yes, them I blame.

It's not that I find Ben's attitude unrealistic, sadly; it's that I hate to see it validated by the text.

[cathexys.livejournal.com]

Yes, totally uncertainty but...the excuse seemed like a conceit on both sides so as to keep it uncertain (b/c if she'd acknowledged she wasn't sure, they could have just tested, right?). Does that make sense?

As for masculinity...I think that's what I was trying to get at: why I fall for guys in fanfic that are very much not what I'd ever look at twice in RL....just like I love fantastic versions of eternal and transcendent love that I don't believe in in RL (and let's not forget thinking that a 16 year old should be with a vampire, that brothers having sex is a nifty idea etc etc :) It's like a fairy tale wish fulfillment where things are not exactly real?)

[percysowner.livejournal.com]

She said she met him in a biker bar. That doesn't mean trasient, just a little wild. She may have named him as a possible father, got him tested and then he disapeared.

[rivkat.livejournal.com]

But "bitches" takes me way out of my wish fulfillment/fantasy zone. I neither want nor want to be that guy, and it makes me angry and sad; it's realistic in a bad way.

[ariss-tenoh.livejournal.com]

I haven't seen the episode yet but that attitude you talk about is something I see often. Particularly with single moms who have sons. As if not having a father around means they should let their sons get away with murder (or macho behavior) because god forbid he turns out to be a mama's boy. *rolls eyes*

[coffeeandink.livejournal.com]

Well, Dean knows that, but the woman doesn't, and I personally think lying to the hot one-night-stand who showed up eight years later and immediately interfered in her parenting in ways (a) at all (b) in ways she disapproved of was the smart choice.

[notreallyjordan.livejournal.com]

Hey, I got suspended from the Supernatural list for bringing this up, because the moderators were "hurt and offended" by my comments. It wasn't even the spoilers that bothered them. I'm just bemused--how the hell did I even get on that list? I thought I was responding to Rivka again. But my mailbox was full of squee girl posts, infuriated that I was offended. Rolls eyes.

and hey--isn't it a "bitch's" trick ONLY to kick a guy in the balls?

[rivkat.livejournal.com]

Good lord! I had no idea about the list -- I haven't signed up for any. I wish I were surprised, though.

I ... really don't know what "bitches" do or don't do, other than not have dangly bits.

[meret.livejournal.com]

The sexism in the show is why it took me so long to start watching it. What appalls me even worse is that there are even more comments like that in the fic than there are on the show IMO, and most of it is written by women. That boggles my mind.

[rivkat.livejournal.com]

I think cathexys was getting to that when she talked about the fantasy aspects of it -- often fanwriters use exaggeration of what's on the show to indicate how much they enjoy a character, and I think that goes on in the fic. Dean's sensuality, his lack of self-restraint, his swaggering and posturing are fun and sometimes -- too often, I agree -- writers use his misogyny to indicate those things about him. And I think because we are women, even when writing from notionally male POVs, we feel a certain freedom to talk about women.

[meret.livejournal.com]

ACK! I'm so, so, sorry!!! Please forgive me. I try very hard not to spoil people. I apologize for letting her name slip. I deleted the comment so no one else would see it.

I have a hard time watching all the horror stuff, the saw no less than the drowning,

I've used a table saw before so that made me shudder too, but in a good way. :)

[rivkat.livejournal.com]

Not a big deal. When I care about spoilers, I try very hard to say so! I'll go back and get rid of my comment too.

[meret.livejournal.com]

I'm glad you're not upset. I'm still irritated with myself for doing it though. *hugs*

[olivia-circe.livejournal.com]

Unrelated to anything in this post:

I've been reading your work (and stalking your LJ) for years now, and I decided that it was finally time to stop lurking about and actually friend you, so I did. And you said to leave a note, so I am. I think it will be quite pleasant to actually read you on my FList, instead of in one of those many open Firefox tabs...

[rivkat.livejournal.com]

Welcome!

[harriet-spy.livejournal.com]

I just saw the episode this evening--though it was a real false note in what was otherwise a very sweet storyline.