Help me, Obi-Fan!

[rivkat]

Okay, so I am going to this conference, and Madhavi Sunder and Anupam Chander have a paper, The Right to Mary Sue (28 pages long, pdf), which will be published in a major law review.  They use Mary Sue as a shorthand for much fan fiction, and also they argue that self-insertion into copyrighted works is a good thing.  I am very sympathetic to their argument towards the rehabilitation of Mary Sue, though I have serious doubts about using her as the representative creation of fan fiction.  Part of this may well be the usual fear that fandom will be misrepresented or misunderstood by outsiders.  Chander & Sunder are very sympathetic – in fact, I think they overstate the liberatory potential of fan fiction – but there’s always that worry.

Anyway, I have an opportunity to offer comments, and I have plenty about Mary Sue as feminist heroine and slash as feminist liberation of the original text.  What I lack, shamefully, is a comparable ability to discuss race in fan fiction/media fandom.  Chander & Sunder argue that fan fiction allows marginalized groups to insert themselves in the text or reorganize the narrative around themselves, and couple that with discussion of the underrepresentation/misrepresentation of characters of color in TV/movies, but how often does that happen with race?  We have plenty of gender-swaps; does anyone know of a race-swap story?  Any good discussion of Teyla and Ronon as characters of color in SGA fanfic? 

Things I already know I want to show them: Mimisere’s Jesus Walks (found a copy on YouTube, by the way; that result came up before any LJ result).  Remember Us, the archive.  (No SGA section, interestingly.)  Coffeeandink from 2002.  Them Mean Ol’, Low-Down, Lando Calrissian Blues.  Blaise Zabini is black (oh darn, am I going to have to explain FandomWank to them?).

I have been reading cultural appropriation posts with interest, but I didn’t realize I’d need to try to do some outreach.  So if anyone has links to good discussions of race in fandom that could help explain us – the good and the bad – to some smart, capable people, I’d really appreciate it. 

Comments

[batdina.livejournal.com]

I can't tell whether you have her friended or not, but when I have questions viz race in fandom, my first port of call is ladyjax. I'll point her thissaway, but you might want to track her down yourself as well.

[liviapenn.livejournal.com]

Not discussions, but this story was an answer to a self-insertion challenge:

Just as Foxy As Can Be, by Te
http://teland.com/foxy.html

And it might be interesting to search out recs or discussion of this one:

Wesley's Liberal Guilt, by Jessica Harris
http://gunnwesley.populli.net/wesleysliberalguilt.htm

[margueritem.livejournal.com]

I must admit something, which I've... never really tried to discuss at large (maybe I've mentionned it to some close fanfriends). I get the impression that fandom (slash part) is very... caucasian-leaning. Part of it is statistics, of course, but I wonder if there's not a tiny part... well... I don't know what to call it, since I'm not sure if it's real.

I'll try to be clearer. This hit me with the movie Gladiator and the slash that was written for it: Russel Crowe's character (Maximus?) was slashed with Joaquin Phoenix's character or with the man with a scar. And yet, there was this man, who actually cared for (physically) Maximus, with whom Maximus had a conversation about family, with whom Maximus fought, and there was none (or barely) any slash with *that* character. The difference between this character and the others? That character was black.

I want to underline this: this is an impression and I'm in no way saying that fandom is racist. It's just something that for some reason struck me as peculiar when it happened. Or more accurately didn't happen.

The impression I get from fandom by large is that race is a non-issue. Not that there isn't racism (since statistically there will be racist people everywhere, just as there are "homophobes" that read slash), but that race isn't an issue for most people.

*re-reads self* Okay, this is probably of no help to you. Sorry about that. :( Hope you find some interesting links. I'd be interested in reading that.

[monimala.livejournal.com]

Oh my God.

I'm sorry. I didn't mean to just randomly spam your LJ, but I KNOW Anupam Chander and I believe Madhavi is his wife (whom I've never met)! LOL! His family and mine go way back. I haven't seen him since I was a kid and I had no idea that his area of legal expertise forayed into things like the copyrighting of fan fiction and that he was interested in the cultural implications of it. It's truly a small world. That's fascinating.

[rivkat.livejournal.com]

I am extremely hesitant to impose on someone I don't know on this topic, but if she is interested in pointing to places I could show the authors of this paper, I'd love to do so.

[liviapenn.livejournal.com]

You're not the first person to notice things like this; it happens all the time. There've been whole panels at Escapade and other cons about race in fandom and why certain characters and pairings just seem to... slip through the cracks.

[rivkat.livejournal.com]

I myself think there should be more Johnny/Bruce Dead Zone slash, but it's not a popular pairing in an already small fandom, so there you go. I do think white fanwriters are often hesitant to give characters of color larger roles in fan fiction than they have on the shows. SGA is a big exception, and that may well be because everybody's got as good a shot at defining Ronon and Teyla's cultures as anyone else. (Though SG1 seems to have much less Teal'c fic, proportionately. Who knows, with SGA?)

Race isn't an issue for white folks because we/they're white. I have the privilege of not thinking about it, but it's there.

[rivkat.livejournal.com]

They're wonderful folks. They both do intellectual property, and they're fan-types but not in fandom, so that's how they got into it, I think.

[batdina.livejournal.com]

no problem. I'll check with her. The main reason I thought of her in the context of your request is that she ran a panel at Escapade on this very topic, specifically about the use of people of colour in the Stargate Universe. I'll see if I can track down the lj posts on that panel, which spawned an entire fandom-wide discussion on cultural appropriation. IOW, tons of stuff that might be useful.

[rivkat.livejournal.com]

Okay, silly person here. Replace previous reply with general "thanks." I'd forgotten what Jessica's story was.

[monimala.livejournal.com]

I'm on the verge of e-mailing Anupam to say "Hi, longtime no see!" Fan fiction is a huge debate in intellectual property law these days isn't it? So, I guess it makes sense.

[margueritem.livejournal.com]

I was going to say, "Oh, glad it's not just me then", but I would have prefered it if you'd say "It's just you; look this way for all the hot multicultural loving". This reminds me of a post I wanted to make.

I must say I was rather disappointed when we lost Grodin, Ford and Bates on SGA, and we gained Ronon. Not that Ronon isn't incredibly hot, but he's not enough to replace three non-white people. :(

[margueritem.livejournal.com]

I do think white fanwriters are often hesitant to give characters of color larger roles in fan fiction than they have on the shows.

I wonder if it's about being hesitant or about it not even ocurring to us? Which would link back to the whole "White is the default race, and they have the privilege of not thinking about it".

I now seem to remember a discussion somewhere about writing or not writing people that were not white/northamerican/westerners : there was some issue about whether white people could write black people... or something. Argh, I can't remember where I saw this.

Considering how much subtext I see between Teal'c and Jack, I've often bemoaned the lack of good fic for those two.

[abbylee]

Most of the discussion I've seen on my own friends list, re: Ronon and Teyla seems to bemoan the discussion of them as characters of color. That is, those who seem to focus on it manage to completely miss the point that for most of them, what's differentiating isn't that they're not white, but that they're not from Earth. They face hurdles, but it's discussed more in terms of culture than in terms of race. Which I suspect might actually be more freeing for authors, and also make it blend in to the story better.

Sort of related, isn't there an SG-1 episode where they end up in some underground genetic lab and all the people are wary about Teal'c? Jack etc, writes it off that Teal'c makes them uncomfortable because he's Jaffa, but later on we discover that they're evil and their real problem with Teal'c is that he's not "pure" or some such?

[liviapenn.livejournal.com]

That is, those who seem to focus on it manage to completely miss the point that for most of them, what's differentiating isn't that they're not white, but that they're not from Earth. They face hurdles, but it's discussed more in terms of culture than in terms of race.

In the world of the story, yes. In the world of fandom? I'm not so sure people *are* looking past their skin color. I mean, maybe it's just me, but when Markham and Stackhouse get more fic than Ford, and Kavanagh gets more fic than Bates, and *Chuck* gets more fic than Grodin, and there's ten times as much Parrish/Lorne as there is Ronon/Teyla... well, you start to wonder, you know?

[abbylee]

No, I completely agree that we're fucked up about race. I just think that Teyla and Ronon are bad examples of where to look for that kind of discussion.

[liviapenn.livejournal.com]

Also, personally, I think the fact that Ronon and Teyla are aliens makes them harder to write, not easier-- I always say that the difference between John/Elizabeth and John/Teyla is that John/Elizabeth is romance and John/Teyla is science fiction. *G*

But really, you have to look at the casting directors' choices, too. Why is it that Teal'c, Ronon and Teyla are all played by actors of color, and maked as "different" by the way they speak and dress-- whereas aliens like Vala and Jonas, played by white actors, tend to already speak in casual American English, immediately wear "normal" clothes once they become regulars, and generally blend in so well you might not even realize they *were* aliens if you hadn't ever watched the show before? Are the casting directors using Teyla and Ronon's dark skin to indicate that they're "different," -- and if they're not, why is *every other Athosian we've seen* white? Why is it that we see black Satedans in Ronon's flashback, but every Satedan with *lines* is played by a white actor? -- and what does that mean about what they assume is the *default?*

[cesperanza.livejournal.com]

I need to do a bit of searching, but there's a fair amount on modern Klingons as representative of peopleof color, Worf and all that.

[liviapenn.livejournal.com]

Well, you *asked* for discussion. ^_^ Sadly all I have is stories!

[rivkat.livejournal.com]

In fandom, or in the shows? I thought of Klingons, but I don't know enough about the fandom to figure out what representations of Klingons fans create.

[rivkat.livejournal.com]

I love this analysis of J/T versus J/E, and great points about the clothing choices. I was just wondering to what extent this holds or doesn't on Star Trek. Seven stays marked, though she does take on the uniform.

[abbylee]

To me, given the choice between writing about Bates's perspective on how his skin colour marks him as different and effects how others treat him and and Teyla's perspective on how her upbringing marks her as different and effects how others treat her, the second seems much easier. Because not only could I make up anything I wanted and would only need canon to support it rather than actual knowledge about race and racism in America, but I wouldn't have to worry about accidentally offending anyone.

I'm not arguing about the racism and choices in the industry and fandom. It's very obviously there. I just think that if we're looking for examples of "characters of color in SGA fanfic", or even any fanfic, we have to look at the characters who aren't aliens :D We can meta about Ronon and Teyla as characters of color, and dozens upon dozens of other behind the scenes decisions, but as soon as we place them in their world, we can't do it without also focusing on their non-Earth status.

[diluvian.livejournal.com]

Speaking as an Exceedingly Pale Person, my only hesitations when writing characters who are people of color are when their culture is different than mine and I *know* I'm bound to get something wrong in a way that'll mash toes.

Ronon, Teyla, and Teal'c are from barely-fleshed-out SciFi cultures and I can work with that. Pete Ross from small town Kansas? No problem.

Charles Gunn? Yeeeeeee.

I comprehend nothing of gang culture. I comprehend almost nothing about the -- jeez, I've spent half an hour typing and deleting, trying to articulate and *still* feel like I'm going to offend someone.

Anyway, I don't dare. I've been privy to gay & lesbian culture (multi-ethnic, come to think of it) in ways I've never had access to, for instance, a family in Oakland. Even the family of the guy I dated for a *year* in college.

I'll probably never write about a character who's (very actively) Jewish, or someone Amish, or Mormon, for the same reasons. Don't get the culture. Don't want to offend.

Gah, there went another howeverlong of typing and deleting. Um, seconding the recommendation of conversing with ladyjax who is way keen in any case, and there are a couple of other people I will nudge your way.

::flees::

[juxtoppozed.livejournal.com]

I'm having difficulty deciding whether it's what you point out, margueritem, about not conceiving of a wealth of fanfic ideas for characters of color (quite unwittingly, not out of preference/racism but out of some default tendency) or if as rivkat says it's simply because a lot of characters of color don't have major roles in the first place so even if it occurs to people, they want to retain authenticity (make it as close to the established canon as possible so that as creative and great as the story is-- it still could happen within the show's universe.) I have no idea if this is the general preference, but I know that I prefer fanfiction that is not only imaginative and tightly written-- but the events within the story are still possible within the show's canon or the show's future progression. It's a chicken/egg kind of question...would people come up with more and better story ideas for characters of color if they had larger roles on the show? I'm inclined to think so, though I'm not sure I'd bet on it-- because there's still always the "Alternate Universe" realm of fanfic where people aren't beholden to the show's current progression or allocation of screentime/meaty story lines, where *anything* is possible, where minor characters or unexplored pairings can be given full reign, and yet background characters of color tend to still be...in the background. The AU lot shouldn't have the same "canon/authenticity" problems that wold hold back an author from exploring a token character imo). So...I think it's an interesting question.

I think the paper attributes a bit too much willful trail-blazing in the way of exploring and challenging the stereotypes of minority characters (As exemplified by Lieutenant Mary Sue, she serves to contest popular media stereotypes of certain groups such as women, gays, and racial minorities. Where the popular media might show such groups as lacking agency or exhibiting other negative characteristics, Mary Sues are powerful, beautiful, and intrepid.14), but it's right on the mark about it being (whether consciously or not) a tool or potential tool of "empowerment" challenging what's ordinarily given wrt gender or sexual orientation (no matter what the fandom there seems to be brilliant and layered slash to read). I know this doesn't offer much, but essentially I think the problem is not that rivkat doesn't have enough material or to say on it so much as Chander and Sunder have overestimated and hyperbolized fanfic when it comes to conceiving of more creative/genuine ideas and roles (or challenging their current token roles) for marginalized groups. I suppose that may not be what they want to hear though...I agree with the jist of what they're saying and why preserving this medium is crucial, I just think they romanticize the motivations behind fanfic a bit too much in proportion to the actual material (example fanfic) there is to substantiate what they're saying re: race.

[corinna-5.livejournal.com]

It's interesting, to your point, that they're using race as difference given the, hm, liminal to our typical categorization schema of the characters and/or actors. Rachel Luttrell is pretty pale-skinned and her features aren't particularly ethnic -- especially given the wig, I would have guessed she was Chicana if someone had asked when I first started watching the show. I also would have pegged Jason Momoa as mixed-race, since he doesn't look stereotypically black -- and, in fact, he isn't black, he's either Hawaiian or more generally Pacific Island in his heritage, I thankfully haven't stored that information to long-term memory.

So, to sum up my blathering, they're using race as a marker of difference, but using less-specific/less-common racial markers as the identifiers of that difference.

It's an interesting dance -- does Teal'c at-sign on his forehead make Christopher Judge seem less black as well? (I don't think so, and tend to get weirded out at the racial coding of the Jaffa from the little of SG1 that I know, but that's another post.)